There is more than one way to demutualize a mutual. You can, for example, hand out shares to policyholders, which is what Equitable Cos. did in 1992.

While smaller companies have been allowed to demutualize, the big four were prevented from following suit by federal legislation enacted in 1992.

Legislative changes that would allow the insurers to demutualize are making their way through the system.

Mr. Rolland admits setting up a Canadian company might be a tricky proposition, since it might have had to demutualize. Nevertheless, both he and Mr. Burns think the Canadian company's life insurance business could have been made profitable and the balance between life and pensions improved.